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ophelia_impersonator's review against another edition
5.0
cartea asta a fost o bombonica pentru mine, ma asteptam sa fie doar shock value, dar mi s-a parut ca a fost foarte bine echilibrata- prima parte de satira si abia apoi the torture garden propriu-zisa si in cadrul ei descrierile absolut superbe ale florilor de acolo vs partea de tortura, care a fost exact cat trebuie, nimeni nu a vrut sa se dea mare si s-a orientat foarte bine pe experienta personajelor!!
si introducerea foarte bine aleasa, din start iti da o premisa pe care sa o urmaresti in carte si pune in paralel cruzimea si impulsurile mai mult sau mai putin reprimate (in functie de capacitatile financiare sa zic) ale oamenilor din "lumea civilizata" cu tortura asa zis barbara/ primitiva, dar ridicata la rang de arta. "But all of us are more or less murderers...i'm sure that intelectually we have all experienced analogous sensations to some degree. We may curb the innate need we have for murder, or attenuate physical violence by giving it a legal outlet- whether through industry, colonial trade, war, hunting or antisemitism"
"And the universe seemed to me like an immense, inexorable torture garden. Everywhere there was blood and where life was most apparent, there were horrible tormentors to flay the flesh, saw up bones. and turn the skin inside out with sinister expressions of joy on their faces" - odata ce iese din gradina naratorul nu mai este in stare sa condamne sadismul practicat cu sinceritate de localnici pentru ca devine constient ca aceleasi impulsuri ii motiveaza pe cei care conduc societatea civilizata, ca fie pe ascuns, fie pe fata, rational sau nu, oamenii sunt antrenati de aceleasi tipare de placere si suferinta
Tortura nu devine nici pe departe mai putin rea sau mai putin devastatoare din punct de vedere pdihologic pentru personaje, dar ele sunt absolut constiente ca saptamana urmatoare vor urma acelasi ritual, pentru ca indiferent de final, atractia catre gradina este prea mare
lasand la o parte, cel mai bun lucru din toate astea mi s-a parut Clara (nu stiu daca Bataille a citit cartea asta, dar ar fi fost cu siguranta invidios ca nu a scris el personajul)
She's just a girl-loves botanical gardens, a little bit horny, obsessed with death. Clara intrece toate limitele bunului simt prin capacitatea ei de a confunda frumosul si dragostea cu dezintegrarea si moartea, pentru ea cele doua se simt la fel, cu aceeasi intensitate. Cand naratorul ii reproseaza "I was thinking about love (...) And you continuously talk about torture!" ii raspunde "Why not- since it's the same thing" si continua sa sustina aceeasi idee pana la capat. Chiar daca e atat de stapana pe aceasta latura a ei si nu e la prima vizita in gradina, Clara nu ramane nici ea insensibila la suferinta si moarte si ramane la fel de umana
si ca sa inchei tot cu vorbele Clarei
“aren t gods monsters?”
si introducerea foarte bine aleasa, din start iti da o premisa pe care sa o urmaresti in carte si pune in paralel cruzimea si impulsurile mai mult sau mai putin reprimate (in functie de capacitatile financiare sa zic) ale oamenilor din "lumea civilizata" cu tortura asa zis barbara/ primitiva, dar ridicata la rang de arta. "But all of us are more or less murderers...i'm sure that intelectually we have all experienced analogous sensations to some degree. We may curb the innate need we have for murder, or attenuate physical violence by giving it a legal outlet- whether through industry, colonial trade, war, hunting or antisemitism"
"And the universe seemed to me like an immense, inexorable torture garden. Everywhere there was blood and where life was most apparent, there were horrible tormentors to flay the flesh, saw up bones. and turn the skin inside out with sinister expressions of joy on their faces" - odata ce iese din gradina naratorul nu mai este in stare sa condamne sadismul practicat cu sinceritate de localnici pentru ca devine constient ca aceleasi impulsuri ii motiveaza pe cei care conduc societatea civilizata, ca fie pe ascuns, fie pe fata, rational sau nu, oamenii sunt antrenati de aceleasi tipare de placere si suferinta
Tortura nu devine nici pe departe mai putin rea sau mai putin devastatoare din punct de vedere pdihologic pentru personaje, dar ele sunt absolut constiente ca saptamana urmatoare vor urma acelasi ritual, pentru ca indiferent de final, atractia catre gradina este prea mare
lasand la o parte, cel mai bun lucru din toate astea mi s-a parut Clara (nu stiu daca Bataille a citit cartea asta, dar ar fi fost cu siguranta invidios ca nu a scris el personajul)
She's just a girl-loves botanical gardens, a little bit horny, obsessed with death. Clara intrece toate limitele bunului simt prin capacitatea ei de a confunda frumosul si dragostea cu dezintegrarea si moartea, pentru ea cele doua se simt la fel, cu aceeasi intensitate. Cand naratorul ii reproseaza "I was thinking about love (...) And you continuously talk about torture!" ii raspunde "Why not- since it's the same thing" si continua sa sustina aceeasi idee pana la capat. Chiar daca e atat de stapana pe aceasta latura a ei si nu e la prima vizita in gradina, Clara nu ramane nici ea insensibila la suferinta si moarte si ramane la fel de umana
si ca sa inchei tot cu vorbele Clarei
“aren t gods monsters?”
wpschlitz's review against another edition
2.0
Holy jeez does this guy like flowers. It’s like if DeSade decides that, rather than wax poetic on philosophy, he’d just list the selections of the Burpee catalogue.
Nothing much really happens. There’s no “plot” to speak of. Time jumps abound for the first half with no real consequence and the last half takes place over one evening. Most of it involves flowers and fever dream descriptions of tortures.
And what the heck is that ending? Clara has a fit and... there’s a monkey? I figured the prologue might lead to an epilogue. But no. It just ends. Monkey phallus.
The narrator spends half the book telling us (vaguely) what a terrible lech he is but then he’s just an incapacitated spectator for the last half. Clara’s just a monstrous guide through the torment, but there’s no resolution one way or the other.
Unless you’re a completist in 19th century torture/porn novels give this one a miss. There’s better examples of both out there
Nothing much really happens. There’s no “plot” to speak of. Time jumps abound for the first half with no real consequence and the last half takes place over one evening. Most of it involves flowers and fever dream descriptions of tortures.
And what the heck is that ending? Clara has a fit and... there’s a monkey? I figured the prologue might lead to an epilogue. But no. It just ends. Monkey phallus.
The narrator spends half the book telling us (vaguely) what a terrible lech he is but then he’s just an incapacitated spectator for the last half. Clara’s just a monstrous guide through the torment, but there’s no resolution one way or the other.
Unless you’re a completist in 19th century torture/porn novels give this one a miss. There’s better examples of both out there
arat's review against another edition
4.0
Now seems appropriate to talk about this...
The context of the Dreyfus Affair is never overtly mentioned, but the connection is clear. The judicial system is performative at best, an excuse to pretty up whatever miscarriage of justice the courts, church, and state wish, while still being able to claim:
"We went through all the proper proceedings! We did all the hand gestures and used all the flowery language! Sure, we're still 'murdering' a man, innocent or otherwise, but we set up all the rose bushes and aesthetic niceties to make it bearable! Aren't we such a civilized society?"
I am writing this review in early June of 2020. George Floyd was killed by a police officer May 25th, and there's been protests and riots across the country since. Why do I mention this in a review of a book contextualized around French injustice towards a Jewish artillery officer?
The prison industrial complex in America is the Dreyfus trial on a larger scale; a performance to impress the idea of fairness upon the populace, whilst incarcerating black (yea yea, and all other races, sit down) men knowing their chances of re-entering society is slim at best. Why even go through with the trial if the opinions of the courts, church, and state are this obvious?
This is the idea behind "The Torture Garden." The garden is not the sentence men and women are given, but the trial itself. A flowery distraction from the fact that WE AS A COLLECTIVE PEOPLE are about to murder a man. The sentence itself is death, and I don't use these words lightly; to condemn a man to a prison sentence in America is to take away what they knew as their life. For those who can come back and are able to rebuild what was stripped from them, they may as well be Lazarus receiving the miracle from Christ to rise from the dead.
Our sentence is murder, our trial is a torture garden. But many black men (and women) aren't even granted this performative gesture, being murdered without justifiable suspicion or while already apprehended. Is that better or worse? Well, worse in that they are, in the literal sense, dead, not able to even try to re-establish themselves in society.
But (and I want to stress, I don't think either of these outcomes are acceptable, and don't view either as more "good" than the other) the killings of unarmed black people by the police are ~~~better~~~ in that they are more honest. It's the true desire of the courts, prison system, and state expressed openly for all to see. We no longer have a torture garden to trick us into believing we live in a civilized time. We are shown the results of our injustice in the very streets we walk, filmed for all to see. There is no hiding what is behind the flowers now that they are drenched red. We are still just apes, murdering other apes because we were given a spear and the pardon of the tribe leaders.
"To the priests, the soldiers, the judges, to those people who educate, instruct and govern men, I dedicate these pages of Murder and Blood."
Rest in Peace all who entered the garden, rest in power those who never made it there. We failed you and called our actions 'civil.'
Black Lives Matter
The context of the Dreyfus Affair is never overtly mentioned, but the connection is clear. The judicial system is performative at best, an excuse to pretty up whatever miscarriage of justice the courts, church, and state wish, while still being able to claim:
"We went through all the proper proceedings! We did all the hand gestures and used all the flowery language! Sure, we're still 'murdering' a man, innocent or otherwise, but we set up all the rose bushes and aesthetic niceties to make it bearable! Aren't we such a civilized society?"
I am writing this review in early June of 2020. George Floyd was killed by a police officer May 25th, and there's been protests and riots across the country since. Why do I mention this in a review of a book contextualized around French injustice towards a Jewish artillery officer?
The prison industrial complex in America is the Dreyfus trial on a larger scale; a performance to impress the idea of fairness upon the populace, whilst incarcerating black (yea yea, and all other races, sit down) men knowing their chances of re-entering society is slim at best. Why even go through with the trial if the opinions of the courts, church, and state are this obvious?
This is the idea behind "The Torture Garden." The garden is not the sentence men and women are given, but the trial itself. A flowery distraction from the fact that WE AS A COLLECTIVE PEOPLE are about to murder a man. The sentence itself is death, and I don't use these words lightly; to condemn a man to a prison sentence in America is to take away what they knew as their life. For those who can come back and are able to rebuild what was stripped from them, they may as well be Lazarus receiving the miracle from Christ to rise from the dead.
Our sentence is murder, our trial is a torture garden. But many black men (and women) aren't even granted this performative gesture, being murdered without justifiable suspicion or while already apprehended. Is that better or worse? Well, worse in that they are, in the literal sense, dead, not able to even try to re-establish themselves in society.
But (and I want to stress, I don't think either of these outcomes are acceptable, and don't view either as more "good" than the other) the killings of unarmed black people by the police are ~~~better~~~ in that they are more honest. It's the true desire of the courts, prison system, and state expressed openly for all to see. We no longer have a torture garden to trick us into believing we live in a civilized time. We are shown the results of our injustice in the very streets we walk, filmed for all to see. There is no hiding what is behind the flowers now that they are drenched red. We are still just apes, murdering other apes because we were given a spear and the pardon of the tribe leaders.
"To the priests, the soldiers, the judges, to those people who educate, instruct and govern men, I dedicate these pages of Murder and Blood."
Rest in Peace all who entered the garden, rest in power those who never made it there. We failed you and called our actions 'civil.'
Black Lives Matter
taitmckenzie's review against another edition
3.0
This book is not nearly as disturbing as it could have been, though for it's time period it certainly was one of the most shocking things ever written. Then again, if you've never tasted any literature of depravity before don't read it over lunch.
One of the flaws is that Mirbeau spends far more time describing the details of bureaucracy and floral botany than he does torture and lust. When he does turn to those subjects however it is merely in passive told description or explanatory dialogue rather than actual scenes.
For books that really create what Baudelaire called the "oasis of horror" effect, I would recommend Donoso's The Obscene Bird of Night, or the part about the murders in Bolano's 2666.
One of the flaws is that Mirbeau spends far more time describing the details of bureaucracy and floral botany than he does torture and lust. When he does turn to those subjects however it is merely in passive told description or explanatory dialogue rather than actual scenes.
For books that really create what Baudelaire called the "oasis of horror" effect, I would recommend Donoso's The Obscene Bird of Night, or the part about the murders in Bolano's 2666.
bent's review against another edition
1.0
Read this a long time ago and just remembered being really bored, kept waiting for something to happen and nothing ever did. The real torture was trying to read it.