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toc's review against another edition
5.0
This is a book that I keep coming back to in an attempt to fully grok Mr. Jaynes' thesis. There is something incredibly compelling about it. I first ran across his work in an article in Psychology magazine in the 1970s and kept sticking in my head. At random times whilst pursuing the stacks in some bookstore or other I would mount a search for it. That title is so haunting that even my brain, concussed and addled as it has always been, was able to keep hold of it. Oh, I knew I could bug the bookseller. Eventually I could have found it online (I spent a long time looking) but I wanted it to come to me. I finally did, some twenty odd years after reading the first article. And I was glad I waited! I had learned so much more since I started my search that I got so much more out of it when I finally read it thru. And more the next time. And more the next time. It even increased my enjoyment of Snowcrash by Neal Stephenson. (another book I've read multiple times) And what a joy to recognize it while watching the West World TV series!
I must admit, my favorite section is the one in which he explains all of the things we do where consciousness does NOT come into play.
So, is Mr. Jaynes correct? No one I know agrees! And yet this meme has become part of my view of what makes us what we are. Of why our brains seem so messy. And why my thoughts often appear to me fully formed and ripe for the picking.
I must admit, my favorite section is the one in which he explains all of the things we do where consciousness does NOT come into play.
So, is Mr. Jaynes correct? No one I know agrees! And yet this meme has become part of my view of what makes us what we are. Of why our brains seem so messy. And why my thoughts often appear to me fully formed and ripe for the picking.
skarijay's review
4.0
This was certainly a complicated read, it's one I'll have to read again to fully absorb, I think.
muhavipi's review
5.0
A gem of Psychology. This book and the theory deserves more acclaim than it has received. The explanations Jaynes offers and implications it entails are huge. This is an enjoyable read that begs to be followed with books on later developments of the theory. This should be a cornerstone for modern psychological thought and brain analysis, as well as discussion points into the development of world cultures and religious adhesion.
cinchona's review
3.0
A fascinating thesis, bravely and at points clumsily argued. I went hunting for this, like many others, after watching Westworld--and I was happy to find this bold little book light and worth the read.
The central point Jaynes argues (although not in these words) is that consciousness is a software program: a way-of-using-a-brain that is neither mandatory nor particularly old. He proposes that the ancients had a different, bicameral software, the vestiges of which are with us. It's a cool theory, worth carrying around in your head for a while, even if you eventually decide to put it down. It shakes up your ideas about consciousness in a pleasing way.
Of course, the central point is supported by dozens of smaller arguments, drawn from everything from the schizophrenic brain to ancient fertility statues to the Iliad. Jaynes acts by turns as a historian, literary analyst, anthropologist, psychologist, neuroscientist, and sociologist...and in doing so, he stretches himself too thin. It gives the feeling of a pile of unsorted arguments, rather than a carefully curated collection of the best evidence. Still, the central thesis is so compelling, and some of the evidence-pile really does show promise, so it maintains most of its charm.
Before reading, I recommend
The central point Jaynes argues (although not in these words) is that consciousness is a software program: a way-of-using-a-brain that is neither mandatory nor particularly old. He proposes that the ancients had a different, bicameral software, the vestiges of which are with us. It's a cool theory, worth carrying around in your head for a while, even if you eventually decide to put it down. It shakes up your ideas about consciousness in a pleasing way.
Of course, the central point is supported by dozens of smaller arguments, drawn from everything from the schizophrenic brain to ancient fertility statues to the Iliad. Jaynes acts by turns as a historian, literary analyst, anthropologist, psychologist, neuroscientist, and sociologist...and in doing so, he stretches himself too thin. It gives the feeling of a pile of unsorted arguments, rather than a carefully curated collection of the best evidence. Still, the central thesis is so compelling, and some of the evidence-pile really does show promise, so it maintains most of its charm.
Before reading, I recommend
goldsmith3692's review
Despite an interesting premise and strong introduction/background, I found the overall assertion of this book to be lacking evidence-based support. Most presented evidence is inferred from ancient writings and archaeological findings, heavily based on subjective interpretation by Jaynes. I look forward to exploring this concept from sources that explore the neurobiological basis in a more focused and objective manner.
corprew's review
5.0
The Origin of Consciousness &c... is a book about a theory of the rise of human consciousness from a pre-conscious state that lasted until the homeric age. The pre-conscious state was bicameral, and featured hallucinated 'gods' giving directions to people.
The arguments in this book are both literary and subtle. The introduction to the book needs revision or ignoring, but the book is a foundation for a lot of modern authors. I really suggest reading this to people who are interested in cult, myth, religion, battlestar galactica, or the human mind.
This book is powerful enough that it changes your perception of the world around you, and changes how you enjoy other authors' books as well as mass media.
The arguments in this book are both literary and subtle. The introduction to the book needs revision or ignoring, but the book is a foundation for a lot of modern authors. I really suggest reading this to people who are interested in cult, myth, religion, battlestar galactica, or the human mind.
This book is powerful enough that it changes your perception of the world around you, and changes how you enjoy other authors' books as well as mass media.
virtualmima's review
1.25
The first chapter gives a great refutation of many common misconceptions of consciousness, but after eliminating those, Julian Jaynes gives us his own incorrect theory of consciousness, which he dedicates the rest of the book to defending. For someone who seemed to understand how poorly defined and understood consciousness is, he failed to provide an adequate definition himself, discussing a consciousness of the concept of consciousness, or a form of self-consciousness, which he tried to assign a date to based on badly drawn assumptions from weak historical evidence. In vertebrates, there is no such thing as a bicameral mind, and there never was.
Almost anything that can be done unconsciously can also be done consciously. In fact, most of our unconscious habits initially developed through a conscious action repeated several times over. And when you're doing one thing unconsciously or semi-consciously, you're usually doing something else consciously.
The lack of expression of thoughts in writing doesn't mean they weren't thought of. Nor does the lack of understanding of free will mean that the Greeks didn't experience it. It doesn't mean that determinists don't experience it either. For something that's so difficult to put into words, one cannot expect the ancients to have a confident grasp on it. It doesn't take much to disprove this, when Eastern civilizations were more intellectually advanced at that time, and always had some element of free will in their writings. And other species without language understand the concept of choice. The writing style of any book, including the Iliad, is limited by the skill of the author. Rather than assuming that the Iliad was not consciously written, it would make more sense to argue that either Homer did not know how to write free will into characters at the time that he wrote the Iliad, it never occurred to him to do so, or he deliberately chose not to. What's obvious is he chose to write in rhythm, that's not something that could be done unconsciously. The fictional or creative works of a person cannot be used to analyze the way they think. You especially can't take Greek literature literally when it's obvious from Herodotus that they made up a whole lot of stuff for dramatic effect. It's condescending to view all ancient people as will-less and schizophrenic simply because they aren't alive to defend themselves. Schizophrenics also don't necessarily have to obey every voice in their head, and often don't. And even if these authors genuinely thought and perceived the world exactly as they wrote it, that in no way implies that the average Greek shared these same experiences. Being the author of two of the most well-known books in history, Homer was certainly unique, assuming he existed.
It makes a lot more sense to conclude that the usage of symbolism was heavy because of the limitations of language at the time to mostly concrete terminology, rather than assuming that everyone's hallucinating. Or that psychedelics had something to do with religion instead of a "bicameral mind".
Overall the main conclusion of this book is no different from the colonialist "the primitives have no mind and no feelings so you can exploit them however you want" perspective, which is also assigned to factory farm and lab animals. It's also very sexist the way it claims that women are "less lateralized" or in other words "more schizophrenic" than men.
The only part worth reading is the very beginning, which calls attention to a lot of common misconceptions in psychology and evolutionary theory that people don't normally question. The rest is stupidity. It's an embarrassment to the field of psychology that this gullible idiot who believed that every ancient myth is true became such an influential figure among pseudo-intellectuals. The lengthy title is obviously a marketing ploy to attract dumb people who want to feel smart.
Moderate: Misogyny and Racism